Significant improvements have been made in addressing buyer expectations about eChecks, including information about eChecks added to eBay checkout, transaction details, and email communications.

With these improvements, eBay sellers offering PayPal must now accept all forms of PayPal payment, and are no longer allowed to block eChecks. Sellers still have the ability to block eChecks on non-eBay related checkout.

I hope you got that. If not, back up and read it again. An echeck usually takes THREE TO FOUR BUSINESS DAYS to clear. What are business days? They are days other than weekends and holidays. So your paypal echeck could take 7 days to clear if you add in a three day weekend.

I received another related question. When should I ship the product if I receive an echeck?

When the echeck clears – is the right answer.

Here’s another related question. How does this affect the buyer?

The buyer will be very unhappy to wait because they think that an echeck is an instantaneous transfer of money. If you get such a buyer, refer him/her to my ALLCAPS bold statement above.

Thankyou and have a nice day

Dear Andy,

I just paid for your Complete landlord’s kit on the web, (see proof below) but did not get my product. I got an “order pending” notice instead. Please contact me right away and tell me how to get my product. I wanted it immediately, that is why I took the download version.

sincerely,

Janet Roberts (name changed)

___________________

Dear Andrew,

It would help if the information below was on your web site and available BEFORE!!!! your customers use paypal. I am reluctant to pay you twice, since I do not know you and have never done business with you before. As it is, I am trusting you to have the products I desire in a form usable to me. I product I won’t see now for three days.

This is NOT good customer service. You sound like a smart man. You should fix it.

Jane Roberts

___________________

So guess what? I fixed it by blocking paypal echecks from now until hell freezes over. I sent her a request for money and guess what – I get an email from paypal indicating that she has paid me once again with an effin’ echeck. I haven’t received any echecks for products but why am I getting one in response to a request for payment?

Amazing! Maybe there is a different set of rules for requests for payment.

As far as the other customer who paid with echeck and now wants his money back because he didn’t get his product as quickly as he wanted (because he paid with an echeck), he filed a complaint with the Better Business Bureau against me. What an a-hole! He lied to the BBB by saying that he never received the product. I responded and the next day or so later, I get an application to join the BBB in the mail. What a joke!

They can’t do anything to me unless I’m a member and now they want me to become one? Whatever! I’ll scan it in and let you read it for your enjoyment later.

Payment Type:
eCheck
This eCheck payment will post to your PayPal balance once the funds have cleared from the sender’s account, which usually takes 3-5 business days. Please do not ship any items until the funds have cleared.

To refund a pending or uncleared echeck, you need to sign in to paypal and click on the “details” of the particular transaction. From there, scroll to the bottom of the transaction details page and you will see:

Refund:
You can issue a refund for up to 60 days after the original payment was sent. PayPal refunds the payment and fees, including partial fees for partial refunds.
Issue Refund

Simply click on “Issue Refund.” Which still begs the question – what if I refund an echeck that doesn’t clear? Am I out the money?

photo credit: hunterseakerhk

How do paypal echecks work? THEY ARE NOT INSTANTANEOUS TRANSFERS OF MONEY! That’s how they don’t work! An echeck is a transfer of money that takes 3-4 BUSINESS days to clear. Pretty much like a real check except even slower. And guess what? I’ve had a few echecks that have gone bad. How? The only thing I can figure is there wasn’t any money in the account when the echeck tried to clear. I believe that you have to initially have the money in the account at time of purchase but nothing stops you from draining your account before the clearance occurs.

I’ve been burned by this a few times. Usually, it’s such a small amount that it’s not worth pursuing. So I just eat the loss.

You can control whether you accept echecks on paypal as well. Log in to paypal>my account>profile>payment receiving preferences>block the following payments – Pay with eCheck for website and Smart Logo payments, or German bank transfer for all website payments except eBay.

Or you can accept them by not checking the box.

I’ll have to do some digging but I have been able to allow automatic and instantaneous delivery of products paid with echeck through payloadz or paypal. Okay, correction here. I don’t think that I’ve ever been able to allow automatic and instantaneous delivery of digital products paid with echeck. I believe that I simply emailed them the download link after receiving notification of the pending echeck. Call me an idiot. I believe the default is that payloadz will not send the product until payment clears.

Of course this pisses off a lot of people who want the product now hence the echeck nightmare. The echeck nightmare is the backlash I get from the idiots who paid with an echeck and don’t understand that it takes 3-4 BUSINESS days to clear and, or course, they want their product yesterday. “I need it now.” “Paypal is instantaneous.” “You’re ripping me off.” I got tired of dealing with the few pissed off people who can’t pay with a credit card so I just blocked all future echeck payments.

You can refund an echeck payment that hasn’t cleared by simply going to the details of the transaction and scrolling to the bottom of the page and hitting refund. Do you risk the double burn of refunding the payment and the echeck not clearing? That’s a question to which I don’t know the answer.

Buyers cannot stop payment on an echeck but they can drain their account as described above.

My advice – don’t put yourself through the headache for a few extra sales. Block echeck payments from the start.

Update: further research reveals that you might be able to cancel an echeck afterall:

1. Click theMy Account tab.
2. Click the History subtab.
3. Click Cancel in the Action column of the transaction in question.
4. Click Cancel Payment.
5. You have successfully canceled the payment.

Dear Andy Rutherford,

This email confirms that you have received a Pending eCheck Payment for $9.97 USD from Donald Jones (donaldjones@ahawk.com).

This eCheck Payment will remain “Uncleared” until the funds have cleared from the sender’s account, which usually takes 4 business days. If you are shipping an item, please do not ship your item until the funds have cleared into your PayPal account. You will be notified by email when the funds have cleared into your PayPal balance.

———————————–
Payment Details
———————————–

Total Amount: $9.97 USD
Currency: U.S. Dollars
Transaction ID: 4CM779999L4854040
Quantity: 1
Item/Product Name: Landlord’s Guide to Ohio Evictions in pdf format
Item/Product Number: ECBLT#2012
Invoice ID: INV-ZK9S0EZ0
Buyer: Donald Jones

—————————————————————-

January 2, 2008 – automated message to Donald Jones

You have paid with an echeck or debit card

Unlike credit card transactions, echecks or debit card payments are not instantaneous. This means that I do not receive payment until the transaction clears in 3-4 business days after you have initiated the transaction.

Because of this processing time, paypal advises me not to send out the product until payment has cleared. When your payment clears, you will receive your product.

Please note, that your bank may indicate that the payment has cleared before paypal has received notification of that clearance. When your payment clears with paypal, you will receive your purchase automatically.

If you need your product in a more timely fashion, than you may pay with a credit card and at that point I will cancel the debit card/ echeck transaction. Please note, that I cannot refund the debit card/ echeck payment because (if it is still pending) there is nothing to refund.

January 2 – Donald Jones responds

Thanks for the response , I used Paypal & my understanding is it was a transfer from my bank account to pay for the kit. I have no debit card, so please let me know as soon as I can get the download , I need to use the Forcible entry form or if there is a problem with payment.

Thanks,
Don Jones

Jan. 2 – another email from Donald

Just email me where & how to download my purchase when it clears.

Don Jones

Jan. 4 – another email from Jones

Mr Rutherford,
If you would go ahead & cancel my order, I can’t wait for payment to clear. My understnading was Paypal is instantaneous this is the first time product was with held for a $10 purchase.

Thanks,
Don Jones

January 5 – yet another email from Jones

Just cancel it the payment when it comes thru, I don’t need it now.

Sincerely,
Don Jones

Jan. 7 – Paypal notifies us both that the echeck has cleared

Dear Andy Rutherford,

This email confirms that the Pending eCheck you have received for $9.97 USD from donaldjones@ahawk.com has cleared.

———————————–
Payment Details
———————————–

Total Amount: $9.97 USD
Transaction ID: 4CM779999L4854040
Item Title: Landlord’s Guide to Ohio Evictions in pdf format
Item Number: ECBLT#2012
Invoice Number: INV-ZK9S0EZ0
Buyer: Donald Jones

Sincerely,
PayPal

Jan 7 – automated email sent to Don Jones providing him with download link for product sent immediately after echeck cleared

On 1/7/2008 9:53:58 PM, andy@Rutherfordlaw.com wrote:
> Evict kit. Thank you for your order.
> Here is an alternate link for downloading the product if you cannot
> download it through payloadz -
> http://www.ohiolandlordtenant.com/
> audio files are at http://www.ohiolandlordtenant.com/
> html
> If you later buy the complete
> landlord’s kit, I will refund the purchase price of the eviction kit after you have purchased the complete landlord’s
> kit.
>
>
> IMPORTANT: The Download Links below will expire shortly. You will need to
> request additional downloads after that time period. Please keep this
> email for your reference.
>
> Product: Landlord’s Guide to Ohio Evictions in pdf format
> Download Link: http://payloadz.com/d1?txn_id=4CM779999L4854040
>
>
> Transaction ID: 4CM779999L4854040
>
> If you need help with this order, contact us at: andy@Rutherfordlaw.com

January 8 – message from Don Jones

Since I haven’t downloaded your package, I am asking for a refund on my purchase. The time constraints where to long from purchase to download.

Thanks,
Don

January 15 – email from me to Mr. Jones

Don,

I’m trying to understand why I should refund your money on this transaction. You were advised on at least three occasions of the delay associated with echecks. That advice is immediately below for your perusal. You had the option to cancel your payment and pay with a credit card if you wanted the product immediately. You chose not to do that.

Now you are claiming you didn’t receive the product in three days so you want a refund pursuant to our refund policy; however, your inaction led to you not receiving the product within three business days. You had the opportunity to change your method of payment to receive the product immediately. You did not do that. Why am I refunding $10 for your mistake?

Echecks are like regular checks. If you send me a check through the mail for payment, I’m not going to send your product out immediately. I will wait until the check clears. An e-check takes 3-4 business days to clear. When it clears, I will send out the product as I did. Now you have the product and you want your money back too.

If you can explain to me what I did wrong in this process, I will happily give you a refund.

Andrew J. Rutherford II, ESQ.

January 15 – Don Jones responds -

Andrew,
I am sorry for the confusion on this transaction, but as I hope my previously sent & received emails will bear this out. After I found out about the e-check you said no refund could be given until payment was received. Also as you well know the payment was good. I needed the form in a timely manner to try & resolve my tenant issue, the longer it took to file the retainer the longer the court process. Also Paypal would not let me stop payment, so I had to wait till you received payment before I could get a refund. Also usually if a customer if dissatisfied with a product he can return for a refund if unopened, that is what I am asking.

Sincerely,
Don Jones

Jan 21 – Don Jones is back

Mr. Rutherford,
I know you have better things to do than to be bothered with my refund , as do I , but I haven’t heard any response from you concerning the refund I requested after I emailed you the info you requested. Please advise as to my refund status.

Sincerely,
Don Jones

Jan 29 – more from Don Jones

Still waiting on refund!!

Don Jones